JBRL and Hot Rod Hobbies

[Bootny3]

... you can delete this thread casper......

[Daniel S]

I definitely think that something needs to be done to regulate classes. I know that there were lots of people that had problems with rookies running in the sportsman class.

Something needs to be done about the expert stock class. Most people go from sportsman to super stock or mod and skip expert all together.

I don't blame them either, would you rather race against 5 other people or race with 20- 30??

I like your bump up suggestions Jamal.

[cgandersen]

I dunno if I agree that Rookie should be broken up between truck & buggy... I don't think there'd be enough to fill out each class many nights. I do, however, think that there shouldn't be any 4wd in Rookie.

As for Rookies being run together with Sportsman, I think that's just par for the course to be honest... yeah, it stinks if you're one of the better drivers and get ganked (accidentally) by a Rookie, but that's no worse than much of the hacking I see going on unchecked (just my opinion). I do understand why you wouldn't want it, but then would you want to tack on another half hour to the night just to race 4-5 rookies by themselves?

And while we're discussing the "rookie" class, there should be some regulation as to who's allowed to race this class in the JBRL. Looking at the laps/times and the people racing this class the last two years, these aren't "rookies" by my definition. The people racing this class in the JBRL are waaaaay too experienced to be running the laps/times I've seen.... it certainly discourages those who are truly "rookies" from even bothering to attend the JBRL. If you have greater than a year of experience (MAYBE a year & a half), you should be bounced from Rookie for the JBRL... or if you're racing anything OTHER than rookie on a weekly basis, you shouldn't be allowed to "downgrade" just for the JBRL. Just my 2c.

Regarding Slash... well, I won't comment

[Troy Pearson]

Have been club racing at Hot Rod for approx 5 months now and I want to participate in the League in 2009. I hope that you will consider Lipo Batteries and Bl motors to be allowed in the Stock class for 2009 since I only have a Lipo battery and a 17.5 Bl motor currently.

Thanks

[Casper]

Guys BL and lipo will be allowed in all classes next year. I think the only thing still to be decided is if all lipo's will be allowed or only ROAR approved lipo's.
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Team Losi, Xcelorin, Spektrum, Kolor Koncepts
JBRL

[FreeJack]

I'm hoping some interest is shown in 8th scale electric for the 2009 series, this is something that is starting to take off as purpose-built kits become available and will only get bigger in the new year. Out at OC/RC on the weekends they are getting two full heats of them, both conversions from nitro and native electric cars. I think it'd be wise to include this class in the plans for the new season.
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Kevin Deselms - Webmaster, Hot Rod Hobbies
Associated FT SC10 / Team Icon 13.5 - Intermediate Short Course
www.hotrodhobbies.com

[ffejrobins30]

I think that you should have to run a ROAR approved pack just for the safety aspect of it. I used to run a non-ROAR soft pack in club racing and will never do it again...

Another reason they should be run is because they are what you would run if you were at a national event. If you plan on winning and getting good, then you should have to run the proper equipment.
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Jeff Robins - Team SCV Racing
Associated Factory Team RC10B4 Buggy - Stock Class
Hot Rod Hobbies Sept/Oct 08, Nov/Dec 08, Jan/Feb 09 Tuesday Stock Champion
Novak ESC & 17.5 SS Pro - Airtronics - Reedy LiPo
Team SCV Racing

[Dave Barber]

Doing away with the expert stock classes will only make the sportsman classes worse.
I'm with you Daniel, I like Jamal's bump up suggestions too...

[Troy Pearson]

[cgandersen]

[ffejrobins30]

[cgandersen]

[ffejrobins30]

Don't worry, you've got to do more than disagree with me to hurt my feelings.

I feel that they should be hard-case simply because they are more likely to explode/catch fire than NiMh packs. On a simple club race night when you have 10 or 20 guys running electric, it's fine to not require roar-packs, but I think that at something like the JBRL series, which will have 180 poeple there all running their stuff, the odds of problems are much higher.

I understand that there are inherent risks to what we participate in, but I also think that there should be some kind of effort made in the interest of safety, escpecially since fire extinguishers aren't in ready supply at most tracks.
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Jeff Robins - Team SCV Racing
Associated Factory Team RC10B4 Buggy - Stock Class
Hot Rod Hobbies Sept/Oct 08, Nov/Dec 08, Jan/Feb 09 Tuesday Stock Champion
Novak ESC & 17.5 SS Pro - Airtronics - Reedy LiPo
Team SCV Racing

[cgandersen]

I would agree with that... regarding the JBRL, I guess I'd be 50/50 about it (since I currently don't participate in it). I guess the compromise would be to make sure there's a fire extinguisher!

[Troy Pearson]

[quote="cgandersen"]

[Casper]

Talked with Jimmy yesterday.

ONLY ROAR APPROVED BATTERIES AND MOTORS for the '09 series.

I know this wil not make everyone happy but it is done to keep things safe and fair.

I also posted up the new classes. Check out the web site for more details.

There will be more info coming as things get firmed up.
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Team Losi, Xcelorin, Spektrum, Kolor Koncepts
JBRL

[Balistic]

[quote="Troy Pearson"]

[Casper]

I will agree soft case lipo's in a 2wd car are pretty safe. The issue comes in charging them. Do they get punchured or dented while on your pit table? A wrench dropped on them. It doesn't take much to damage a soft case lipo battery.

The JBRL is trying to go more legit in following stricter rules to keep racing as fair and safe as possible.

I really don't care what kind of arguements you make hard case lipo's are safer then soft case. All lipos if not treated with respect and charged and stored properly are dangerous. The same goes for Nimh.

I am sorry if hard case lipo's keeps you from running the JBRL next year. You would only need one to run the series though. If you got a 5000 mah one even if you had back to back classes the battery would last until you needed to charge it again.
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Team Losi, Xcelorin, Spektrum, Kolor Koncepts
JBRL

[Balistic]

[Casper]

Careful now. I did not post anything about boards with nails, that was someone else so be careful with who you are throwing stones at. I have also done my homework. Max amps with there lexan cases are boarder line ok IMO. If you have done your research you would know that Lipo batteries are made up fo basically lamintated plates. If you even dent the battery you can cause a short in the cells and this wil damage the cells. It may not be bad enough to cause the cells to swell up and explode but it will degrade the performance of the cell and it could over time cause a short bad enough to swell the battery. Who's to say are going to be the one that does not treat the cells right. I don't know you and am not saying you will but who says the guy next to you won't. The point is they are less safe. The hard case lipo's that are appoved by ROAR will show if the cells swell. The hard case is typically just held together with a sticker or such so if the cell do swell they will separate the case. Although we don't agree with a everything ROAR does I don't think the rules are in place to make them more money!

As for running multiple classes. My point is if you had a 4000+ lipo you could run it in two different cars back to back with very little if any performance hit. I know guys who do that for club racing. The JBRL events are one day events but with the amount of entries there is more then enough time between classes to charge batteries (Even one)

I don't make the rules. I am just letting you guys know what Jimmy has told me so far. And for what it is worth I agree with where he is coming from.
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Team Losi, Xcelorin, Spektrum, Kolor Koncepts
JBRL

[Balistic]

Sorry, that was Troy. You posted up and I made a mistake about who posted the link.

My ignorance about the JBRL is evident; I think it was a Reedy race at hot rod that I saw last over a weekend.

I think we have both made good points and can agree that;
#1. LIPO's are way more dangerous than NMHI,
#2. in it's infancy (LIPO's) different solutions to safety have been tried,
#3. a great many people have invested in non-ROAR packs that are raced daily in this country without incident.
#4. other than a dead short/to low voltage thermal failure, hard case and skinned LIPO's while in the car are equally safe.

I did barrel role my Slash and blow it over multiple times doing speed runs at over 45 mph with a soft case 3S without issue. I did get it to go 60 but after almost hitting the radar stand twice I gave up on any more.

For me other than you tube I have not seen a LIPO fail, and really don't want to either. I have seen a car lit on fire with accelerants and it was a very small issue indeed. I was happy it had NMHI but they let it burn long enough (2min.) to be concerned about them too.

I didn't wait for ROAR to decide the criteria for LIPO's to be judged on and now I have batteries that I believe to be safe that will last for years (3 year guaranty) that I can't use at big races?

I don't think the ROAR packs are the end all in safety and can suffer the same failures in many ways that lexan cased LIP0's can. A lack of common sense being the real safety issue in their care and handling.
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Slow in fast out

[Casper]

I agree with you that ROAR batteries are not the safest they can be but you have to agree that there rules make lipo's safer.

I have not issues with saftey of Lipo batteres IN A CAR but when out of the car soft case lipo's are vernarable (sp?). More so then hard case versions. That is all there is to that.

The only cars that soft case lipo's are not safe in are 4wd cars with batter slots in the bottom that can expose the battery.

I will concede there are other lipo's out there other then ROAR approved that are safe but it is hard to keep track of them all. This is a growing competative series that is fun but there is also money on the line. You have to draw a line in the sand for rules to keep things fair. When ever you do that you will exclude some people's equipment and that by the nature of it all is unavoidable.
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Team Losi, Xcelorin, Spektrum, Kolor Koncepts
JBRL

[Balistic]

[Casper]

Glass? A lexan undertray is much lighter and does a pretty good job of protecting the slots. I did land on another car after a large triple the other day and broke my undertray. Glad I was using a hard case lipo at the time. The other cars shock tower would have went right into the battery if it was a soft case. Not saying there would have been a fire or anything like that but the battery would have been ruined for certain.
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Team Losi, Xcelorin, Spektrum, Kolor Koncepts
JBRL

[DroopysGarage]

i had a lipo go below safe voltage on 12/30/08 during my second heat race and well it started to bulge so i put it in an ammo can..brought it home...let it sit a few days then decided to dispose of it in a very unsafe manner...first i clipped the plug off of it because i save things..next i threw it as hard as i could against a brick wall in my backyard and waited 5 minutes...it bulged a bit more so with welder gloves on i picked it up and leaned it agaist the wall...then shot it over 30 times with a bb gun hitting it over 20 times and only 1 shot produced a puff of white smoke...fustrated i covered it with an oil drip pan and then dropped 3 18lbs steel bars directly on top of the area where the battery is and not one of them caused the pack to explode,catch fire,or do anything else. tired and fustrated i threw the pack into a bucket of salt water and its still there....did i mention to everyone the disclamer *dont try this at home*....i am nuttier than a squirrel turd and do stupid things on a regular basis. im not a kid so dont even speculate..i am an adult that just so happens to like to tempt death.....specs on battery...electrifly 2 cell 7.4volt 3200mah heatshrink coating.
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I don't fail....i mearly figure out what doesn't work

[Casper]

It is hard to get a lipo to expolde through puncutre. I would not want to charge that bad boy after it was hit the first time though.
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Team Losi, Xcelorin, Spektrum, Kolor Koncepts
JBRL

[DroopysGarage]

i didnt wanna charge it after it went below the low voltage...its cheaper to buy a new lipo...and i got to entertain myself and get a good workout by trying to make it explode
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I don't fail....i mearly figure out what doesn't work

[Balistic]

Glass? A lexan undertray is much lighter and does a pretty good job of protecting the slots.


I have the undertray and a lexan case on the battery, I just wanted to make sure it was as safe as I could make it. I didn't weigh the trays I made but it's 1/16th (1.5 MM) glass and is fairly light. Im still way under weight if you calculate the Nmhi battery to the Lipo.
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Slow in fast out

[Casper]

You are not worried about the glass breaking?
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Team Losi, Xcelorin, Spektrum, Kolor Koncepts
JBRL

[Balistic]

glass as in Fiberglass
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Slow in fast out